Lucy Kahn was born on 7th June 1861 at 78 Elizabeth Street, Liverpool, the daughter of Victor and Mathilda Kahn. Her birth certificate actually records her name as Luci Henrietta Kahnn (with the double-n). Her name is cited as Lucy in the 1871 census (at 15 Crown Street, West Derby) and changes to Lucea for the 1881 census. By this time the surname has become Kahn.
In the second quarter of 1882, Lucy married David Matthews, a shop fitter born in Liverpool about 1858. By the 1891 census they were living in Tollemache Street, Southview Drive, Liscard, Cheshire (Wallasey) and had three children: Esther (Hettie) b. Liverpool 1883, Madeline (Mattie) b. Liverpool 1885 and Louis b. New Brighton 1890. Lucy’s father, Victor, lived with the family until 1899 when he died, his wife Mathilde having died 16 years earlier. In 1901 Lucy and family were still in Liscard and in 1911 were at 57 Rowson Street, New Brighton, which is part of Liscard.
There the trail goes cold, although we do have a few potential records subject to verification:
- David Matthews probably died in 1916 at Birkenhead (Wallasey) and Lucy appears to have died at Wallasey in the second quarter of 1936
- Esther could have married James Titterton in Stockport at the end of 1901 and probably had three children, Harold (1901), James Allan (1907) and Ettie (1909)
- According to family hearsay, Madeline married Courtenay Taylor, but perhaps she married Charles Soden in 1910 (in Croydon) and had two children: Victor W. Soden (b. 1911) and Irene G. Soden (b. 1912) – both born in Somerset.
- Lucy probably died in 1936 at Wallasey, aged 73 or 74
The details in these four bullet-points are tentative and subject to confirmation. What happened to the Matthews family? Are they still on Wallasey or have subsequent generations moved elsewhere? We’d like to know.
Update: we now know for certain that Madeline (Mattie) Matthews married Courtenay Taylor. The Soden connection was an inadvertent red herring.
The Madeline, whose children were Victor W. Soden and Irene G. Soden (my mother) was married to Charles John Soden and died in Toronto, Ontario Canada in 1914.
Hi Merrylin,
This is Dave Kahn, Alan’s cousin. Interesting to see another Canadian connection. I live in Ottawa.
My mother, Madeline Freda Ruth Taylor, was the daughter of Mattie and Courtney Taylor. Mattie died when my mother was about 10 and her brother, Gerald, about 7. Courtney re-married and had a daughter, Thelma and son Terence. My mother died 25 years ago and Uncle Gerald died in Adalaide about 4 years ago. I think Esther must be Aunt Hetty (called AH by my mother). Her son Gaston Robert died age 94 about 3 years ago. I think there are members of the Matthews Family in the Wallasey area.
Annabel Thompson
Welcome to the group! Your mother was likely named after her grandmother, who was called Madeline in her earlier life and Matilda in her later life. Interesting that her nickname Mattie is usually short for Matilda. Esther’s son Gaston who was born c. 1916 was likely named after her deceased elder brother who died young in 1910. Gaston (Kahnn) was my grandfather. Any opticians or eye specialists in your branch of the family?
My grandmother was Bertha Kahn (or Kohn). I’ve seen it both ways. She was born in Germany, lived in Trier, but came to Toronto, Canada, where her family had an Optical company, in the late 1800’s. She later married a US citizen and immigrated to Philadelphia, PA with her husband and children. Her father’s name was Samuel, but I know little else. They were not Jewish, but I do not know about earlier generations.I know I heard about a “Ferd”, and I believe a Sophie, and possibly a “Sig”. There is no longer any family to go to for information.
Sorry no opticians or eye specialists in the family! My mother used to visit Hilda (Babs) in her flat in London. She also talked about cousins? Hannah and Miriam but I have no idea where they fitted in to the family tree. Uncle Louis lived in New Brighton I think and had 2/3 sins and a daughter, Josie who was married to Ben, a dentist; I think they lived inThe Wirral and had a son and daughter. I would love to see a family tree.
A clarification. When I referred to “her deceased elder brother” I was referring to Lucy, not Esther. Interesting to hear of the maintained contact with Babs. I am in occasional correspondence with Beatie’s granddaughter. What a story their’s was. My cousin Alan is probably best positioned to send you a tree – I’m still getting up to speed on Mac Genealogy. We have a ton of stuff on all the branches except yours, so your posts are quite exciting.
Wow, Louis Matthews was my great grand grandfather. I have an extensive audio history recorded sometime in the 1950’s by my grandmother Jocelyn Matthews (Birley) of her Aunty Hetty. So many of these family names are familiar from that recording. I am Jo and Ben’s oldest granddaughter. They had a son (Martin) and a daughter (my mum Jacqueln). Jo died in 2001 and Ben died in 2002, in the Wirral. How exciting to find this website! Gosh, now I wish I knew where that tape was!
I just realized that I spelled Jacquelyn incorrectly! Sorry Mum.
Hi, I’m Kirsty’s youngest sister Gill. Jacky’s daughter. Facinating website, good find Kirsty. I don’t actually know a lot about the history Matthew’s family so this was wonderful to read and see the connections. I just know they had a famous office furniture business which was very successful but sold off around the time Jo passed away. Her brothers David and Philip and their wives are still alive and well and living on the Wirral still. If anyone’s interested. 😊
Ps. Jocelyn’s (to us just Jo) middle name was Lucy. So now we know where is from, her fathers mother 😊 How nice to find that out. X
Welcome to the group Kirsty! My cousin Alan who runs this site may still be on vacation.
Well done Kirsty😊
Lots of Philips in our branch of the family, likely named after the youngest child of Victor who died young. And I am a David – have not found an earlier David yet, but there likely is one.
I believe I am the grand daughter of Madeline Matthews. My late Father was Gerald Taylor from England who moved to South Australia in 1957. His Father’s name was Courtenay Taylor married to Madeline. I recently found her birth certificate dated 1885. My Father’s Mother died when he was about 4. i also remember an Aunt Hilda and an Aunt Hettie. My cousin is Annabel Thomspon and her Mother was my Father’s sister. I also have letters that my Father wrote to the Kahn optometrists.
Reagrds
Daphne Moore nee Taylor
Hello. My maternal grandfather was Louis Matthews of Wallasey. He married Florence Bamberger and they had 3 children, David (still living in Caldy Wirral), Jocelyn (my Mum, who died in 2001) and Phillip (still living in West Kirby, Wirral)
Hi Jacky… thanks for the info. Can we perhaps exchange information as I’d like to update our family tree with your branch details/ dates etc?
I’d appreciate anything you can provide, if possible by email: info@kahngene.org.uk
best wishes/ Alan
Hi. This is Kirsty. I have here what I believe is the wedding photograph of Lucy Kahn and David Matthews. How do I share it?
Thanks Kirsty. I’ve replied by email. Regards
Alan
Just sent them now. Sorry for the delay!!
Lucy and David Matthews were my great grandparents. My grandfather, Louis Matthew’s took over the business ‘Matthew’s office fitters’ that had an office in Dale Street Liverpool.
Hello again Jacky. Good to hear from you. I can’t remember off hand… were you interested to view the family tree on ancestry.co? It’s still not finished (never will be) but it gives some fresh info about our family since we last communicated. If so email me (alan@kahns.co.uk) with your email address and I’ll arrange an invitation. All the best
Alan